Madrasas and 'Terror': Interview with Asrar ul-Haq Qasmi

Maulana Asrar ul-Haq Qasmi, a graduate of the Deoband madrasa, is the founder and director of the Delhi-based All-India Ta’limi-o Milli Foundation, an organization working for Muslim educational advancement. He is also the Assistant General Secretary of the All-India Milli Council and a former General Secretary of the Jami’at ul-’Ulama-i Hind.

YS: What do you feel about the allegations being levelled today that madrasas are engaged in spreading hatred against other communities?
MAQ: Madrasas have had a long history in India, of almost a thousand years, and they are thus not a new phenomenon. They see themselves as preserving, transmitting and promoting the Islamic tradition. They also seek to instill in their students certain basic moral values. We believe, in accordance with the teachings of Islam, that God is the Lord of all the worlds and of all creatures. We also believe that God sent the Prophet Muhammad as the mercy for all. But we certainly do not teach our students to hate Hindus, for that would be going against the teachings of our faith. In fact, the Qur’an says that God does not stop you from befriending people of other faiths if they have not persecuted you on account of your faith. It also explicitly lays down that Muslims must not let the enmity of others lead them to swerve from the path of justice. On the other hand, the RSS and its allied organizations run scores of schools where they openly preach hatred for Muslims, Christians and others. Why is it that so few people talk about that and pick on the madrasas instead?

YS: If that is the case, then why do you think there is this organized campaign to defame the madrasas?
MAQ: As I see it, this campaign is motivated simply by political considerations, so that right-wing Hindutva groups can thereby gain the support of the Hindus by spreading baseless rumours about the madrasas. Let me give you a small example to show how successful they have been in poisoning the minds of ordinary Hindus. Some months ago a group of students from the Deoband madrasa were traveling in a train. They started a conversation with some Hindu co-passengers, who, when they came to know that they were from Deoband, made all sorts of wild allegations about the madrasa, based on hat they had been reading in the newspapers. The students then invited them to come with them to Deoband to see the madrasa for themselves. They, however, refused saying that they had heard that there was allegedly an underground chamber in the madrasa where Hindus are routinely killed! Of course there is no such thing in the madrasa, but see how ordinary people’s minds have been so terribly poisoned by Hindutva propaganda!

YS: What would you say about reports of some madrasas in India’s border areas being allegedly used by the Pakistani secret service agencies?
MAQ: There is no evidence to suggest that any of these madrasas is engaged in any sort of conspiracy against the Indian state. Not a single madrasa in India provides military training to its students. Now, there is much talk about madrasas in Rajasthan situated along the border with Pakistan being allegedly used as training grounds for militants. When I first heard of these reports, I met the chief minister and the governor of the state, and then I addressed a press conference. I told the journalists who had come there, almost all of whom were Hindus, that I was going to inspect the madrasas along the border and I invited them to come with me to see if they were really engaged in ‘anti-national’ activities, as was being alleged. I told them that if I saw a single such madrasa I would destroy it myself, with my own hands!After the press conference two journalists, both Hindus, one from the UNI and the other from the Hindu, came along with me to the Barmer district. We went unannounced, so that the journalists could be sure that nothing had been pre-arranged. After touring the madrasas, we found absolutely nothing incriminating at all. Then, one of the journalists asked me if he could address a gathering at a madrasa. He stood on the podium, tears streaming down his face, his hands folded, and said, ‘Please forgive me, I’ve been writing against madrasas all this while, but I had never been to a madrasa before. I’ve now seen for myself the contribution that you are making, with your meagre resources, for promoting education in this area’.

YS: There have been several reports of madrasa students and teachers being harassed by police or intelligence agencies in some parts of the country. What do you have to say about this?
MAQ: Yes, this has happened at several places, and many perfectly innocent people have been wrongly targeted. To give you an example, some time ago, a certain Maulana Atiq Asari, a teacher of ah Ahl-I-Hadith madrasa in Uttar Pradesh, was arrested. The newspapers created a big sensation, claiming that he was an agent of Osama bin Laden. As was later discovered, this was a totally concocted story. Apparently the teacher was arrested for something very different, for some problem in registering ownership of a plot of land. Later, the issue went to the High Court, and he was declared innocent. Meanwhile, his reputation had been totally damaged, with all these wild stories of his allegedly being a terrorist.I’ll give you another instance. Last year intelligence agents came to a village in Hapur to question a young madrasa student, suspecting him of being involved with the Kashmiri militant group Hizb ul-Mujahidin. The boy was arrested and branded as a terrorist, and it was even claimed that he had been involved in a bomb blast in Bhopal in 1986. But at that time he boy would have been only 13 years old. So, we issued a statement challenging this allegation, saying that the charge was extremely doubtful as the boy would have been too young to engage in such an act. We took the matter to the Bhopal High Court, which later declared him innocent. Now, when he as first arrested, the newspapers claimed that he was a dreaded terrorist, but when he was declared innocent no Hindi paper admitted that he was wrongly accused. No wonder then that many people who rely only on such newspapers for information think that madrasa students are all terrorists.

YS: How, then, can this campaign against the madrasas be countered?
MAQ: We must make use of the media to put forward our voices, and to explain to others what exactly the madrasas are all about. One way to do so, as I have suggested to my fellow ‘ulama, is that madrasas must seek to highlight before others the great role played by the ‘ulama in India’s freedom struggle. This is itself a long story, going back to the Shah Abdul Aziz’s fatwa of 1814 against the British, and then carrying on till 1947. All along, the majority of the Indian ‘ulama were strongly opposed to the British and took an active part in the freedom movement, even opposing the Partition of the country. But, today, how many people are aware of these facts? These must be brought to the notice of the wider public.

Also, I have suggested that madrasas must organize functions on the 15 of August every year, on Independence Day, to which they should invite the Hindus, Muslims and others of their localities, as well as government officials. They should arrange for speeches on communal harmony and tolerance and so on, and must also explain to the public what exactly they teach and their sources of income, so that in this way they can counter the misunderstandings that some people might have about them.

Madrasas should also play a leading role in setting up peace committees, comprising responsible people of their locality from all religious communities. These committees must seek to resolve all contentious issues and disputes through negotiation. Also, madrasas must engage in inter-faith dialogue work to promote peace, understanding and good social relations between people of different faiths.

YS: How do you think this agenda of inter-religious dialogue can be proofed?
MAQ: You don’t need to be a profound thinker or theologian to do this! By citing small examples you can make a very deep impact. You must convince people that our country can only survive and prosper if all of us live together in peace, and only if we accept the multi-religious character of our society. Let me give you an example, which I often cite when I talk or write about inter-faith harmony. Some years ago a Saudi plane collided with a Kazakh plane over the village of Charkhi Dadri in Haryana, causing the deaths of all the passengers, now, most of the passengers were Muslims, and there was not a single Muslim in the village. Yet, when I got there the next day I saw the whole village in deep mourning. The local Hindus made elaborate arrangements for providing food to the relatives of the deceased passengers who had gathered there. The village youth helped in lifting the corpses.

I also often refer to another similar incident, but this time the roles were reversed. A fire broke out during a school function at the village of Dabwali, killing several hundred people. Although no Muslims live in the village, at the time of the fire some Muslims had come to the local market to sell rice. When they heard about the fire they hurried to the scene to rescue the people who had been trapped. One of them, a certain Shamim, rushed into the fire seven times, each time rescuing one person. He suffered 75% burns and then died in hospital. Mind you, he must have known that none of those trapped in the fire were Muslims and yet he was willing to sacrifice his life for them. This is what I call the real India, the strength of our India, which people like the RSS-walas want to destroy.